Hi, I am Kari And I'm Kimberly. And this is Coffee and Cocoa, a podcast about reconstructing your family after they deconstructed their faith. We are a mother and a daughter having conversations from both sides of the faith divide. Okay. Do you have anything you wanna bear your testimony on or throughout this last week?
Uh, yeah, so I. To bear my testimony about Mormon funerals. Yeah. Which, which can, they can be preachy and frustrating and that's like, I have a, I have a document in my Google documents just so you know, of things that people are not allowed to say at my funerals. Wait, really? Yes, I do. Like, I don't want, I don't ever want my funeral to be like a guilt trip of like, you guys need to come back to church so that your mom can see you again.
Yeah. Like that's definitely a thing for me. But, um, we had a good friend, uh, pass away this last week and the funeral was on on Friday morning and. It just was such a sweet time, for all of his family to be there and all of them to be together. And also, I mean, say whatever you want about the church, but we do a good funeral, right?
Like they had a great big meal and for everybody, and lots of it was just like. The love in that whole situation was just palpable, right? Like you could just feel how much they all loved each other and how much they loved their, father and husband and brother and it just was really.
a sweet time. And the thing is, is it's, it's interesting because like I said, there's some things that I really don't want done at my funeral. Mm-hmm. I don't want, you know, any guilt trips about temple or anything like that, but, but I do. Love believing that family is important and family is mm-hmm.
Family forever like I do, even if we don't know for sure, and I mean, we don't really know for sure. Mm-hmm. And nobody can see that in the future and, and know for sure that that is actually gonna happen until we get there. but I love believing that.I hope for that. Mm-hmm.
I want that to be true. Yeah. And I will say I do love, like the concept of having such an efficient community when there's a funeral, like mm-hmm. Mormon funerals, I mean, funeral potatoes are named that for a reason. Like there's always somebody in your ward. Is going to gather together people who are going to bring food so that your family will be fed after they attend this funeral together.
Mm-hmm. And they will set it up and they will clean it up. And you don't have to add that to the cost of the funeral. And you don't have to worry about that. Like, like the expectation is there. It's set. We've cooked things for plenty of funerals. Like, you know, I, I do like thatcommunity aspect of it.
I always like too that it's something that you can do, right? Mm-hmm. Like when, when somebody is in, in pain like that. Mm-hmm. And you want to do something to help them. Yeah. Right. That's, it's a thing that I've always enjoyed being able to offer. Right? Like I am glad to, to bank food and bring it to your family.
And if that lifts your burden a little bit, then I'm glad. Yeah, it's really interesting 'cause I'm meeting a lot more Jewish people now that I live in New York and there's a much larger community here. And what I love that they do that like, I think that Mormons kind of pseudo do is, um, the Shiva, which is like, hmm.
Everybody comes to your H like the family gathers at the person's home and people who like knew this person come and they bring food and they just sit and talk about the person that died. Yeah. And I remember like, especially when Grandma Great died, like I remember how important it was to me at the time that like members from her came over and were like, we just loved your grandma.
And we were like, she was just so special to us. And I do love that. I love the coming together and the. Being able to recognize the impact that somebody had and, and take time for that, I guess. Yeah, I think that's beautiful. Yeah, I think it's a really beautiful tradition and. Yeah, so that was my testimony this week.
How about you? What's your testimony? Uh, my testimony this week is banana bread. I am back in like a baking era for a little bit. Um, I think, uh, but I have bananas like with breakfast every morning. 'cause I keep getting really, really sore after I work out Uhhuh and, um. My boyfriend was passing the bananas, like, and occasionally
he'd be like, oh, what are you gonna do with those bananas? And I was like, I'm going to eat them. I eat them every day. Um, and then like eventually he was like, it was really nice that one time you made banana bread. And I was like, okay, I'll make banana breads.
So I just bought a bunch of bananas so that I had enough leftover to make banana bread and I made a lot. It's never enough, but it's really good. I'm, I don't know. It's just, it's been a stressful week and it's just like nice to have like these little things that I'm like, yeah, but I can make myself banana bread and it's gonna be okay.
Like I can bring myself some joy. Yay. Do you put nuts in your banana bread? No, I didn't. I didn't add nuts because I was making it mainly for my boyfriend. I knew he'd eat a lot of it too, so I. Thought about like nuts or chocolate chips or mixing it up. But I was like, I'm just gonna keep it classic because I, you know, that's kind of what he asked for.
But then I was eating it and I was like, this could use some nuts. Like I do like it better with nuts. Yeah, me too.
So today you were wanted to talk about Twilight and I think that that's fun.
Like a lot of the things that we've done have been kind of serious and, and you know, I'm sure that there's some things with this one that will be serious, but. Yeah, twilight's very serious to me. Okay. It's one of my favorite things. I'm kidding. I do think it's funny that you brought up, like, as your testimony today, funerals, I was like, oh, perfect.
We're talking about the undead, right? Um, I love that you dress for it too. It's kind of funny. Yeah. Very gothic. Um, I'm in, I'm in the gothic mood lately too, like, especially like with Weathering Heights and so, you know, I still haven't seen it. Don't think that you would like it really. Okay. Yeah. I don't, I don't think I would recommend any Emerald fennel film to you.
She is very, like, loves the grotesque and like grotesque imagery. Mm. I don't, that's not really my thing. No, no. Interesting. And like also like a lot of like explicit things that I don't think that you would love. Interesting. Okay. And it's not at all like an adaptation of the book. It's like, it's actually funny 'cause the joke right now bringing it back to Twilight is that like, this is Bella Swan's impression of Weathering Heights.
'cause she talks about Weathering Heights a lot in Eclipse and like compares like her situation, like, you know, each Twilight book has another like literature that she keeps coming back to, like Right. Uh, what is the first book? I can't remember. The second book I think is Romeo and Juliet. 'cause they die for each other.
The third is Weathering Heights. I'm trying to think. Maybe I don't know these books as well as I thought I did anyways. Do you remember reading these books? I remember they got really, really popular and everybody was reading 'em and mm-hmm And I just read 'em 'cause everybody was reading them. Yeah, and I think also because you wanted to read them and I was like, mm-hmm.
How old were you at the time? You were like 13. No, I was like 11. Oh, okay. So you were, because I remember I got introduced to it because I was in a show and I can remember what show that was. And a lot of the older girls backstage in the green room were reading. Book, and I was like, what show was it? I, I am pretty sure it was Peter Pan.
So it was like 10 or 11. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. So you were 11. That's really young. But yeah, I remember that you wanted to read 'em, they were super popular and, um, so I thought, be a good mom and I, I would read 'em first, just so you know. Mm-hmm. I would know what you were experiencing here. And I remember they were like, like the writing was interesting.
They were easy to, they were an easy read. Right. Just, it wasn't any kind of, you have to think about these books. Yeah. It's not asking a lot of you as like Yeah. Read deeply into it. Yeah. So, so I did, I read 'em and I think there were two out when I first picked him up, and then I followed in. Yeah. Do you remember what you thought about the story at the time?
I just remember it just being kind of a, a romance thing. I remember, like I remember I liked him. Okay. Yeah. But, and I, and I remember like the whole love triangle thing, and I remember kind of, well, I do remember the whole thing with Edward being cold. It was like such a turnoff for me because I'm like, that is the whole reason.
That's not the whole reason I sleep with your dad, but. I do love snuggling up to your dad when it's cold, and if he was cold, I'd be out. Like there's no, there's no interest there at all. Yeah. Sorry, team Jacob. Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Team Jacob. For no other reason than that he is Mormon is Mor.
That's so funny because, so the reason that Twilight came up as a topic for me to bring to this podcast is because people here don't know a lot of Mormons, and one of the things that they do know is Stephanie Meyer was a Mormon. So my friend had a PowerPoint night and she was like, my request for you is for you.
Explain Twilight and Mormonism. I want that to be your PowerPoint. So I did, I made a whole PowerPoint about it and um, we'll kind of go over some of the stuff that was in it. But then after that, another friend friends, a book club in New York and she started doing a nostalgia reads book club. So we've been doing twilight this year, so that's why I recently read them.
And then I find new things that I'm like reading it from like a post Mormon experience. I'm like, this was absolutely written by Mormon. Like, yeah. Did you, did you know at the time. That it was written by a Mormon. And did you feel like it was very Mormon when you read it? I did know that she was Mormon or a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints if we want to be PC about it.
And I remember that being interesting, right? Yeah. But I don't remember like it being specifically geared towards LDS people. And I remember it was like popular in the entire culture, not just. Um, yeah. Not just popular in the church. Yeah. 'cause there are some books that like just became popular like in the church, but also like I was surprised when I was researching.
Mm-hmm. Really loosely. Thanks for this PowerPoint. How many like famous authors that I read growing up or Mormon, like, I don't know if you remember like Matched that was written by a Mormon Fable Haven? Those books were written. Brandon Sanderson. Grew up Mormon, like, yes, I don't know if he still is Mormon, but like there's a lot of like Mormon books, like Fathers Princess Academy, uh, Shannon Hill who wrote that.
And she also wrote like another like series that I was obsessed with. The Girl Goose Girl, um, that I read in like middle school. She's Mormon. Like. So I thought that was really interesting. It's, but I did wanna ask your opinion like. As a parent, right? Mm-hmm. I was your oldest daughter and we were big readers, like, you know, our whole family.
We just read a lot and we'd have like competitions of like, who could get through the Junie b Jones books the fastest and like things like that. But like I was entering an age right when Twilight came around where I wanted to read. More young adult things, more mature themes. What made you, like, how did you handle that as a parent and what made you think that like this was an okay book for me to read?
Um, I think, I think it probably did have to do with the fact that she was Mormon. Mm-hmm. Because I remember, especially later on in the books. Feeling very betrayed when she brought sex into it. Right. Like feeling, feeling very, I mean, I think that I'm, I feel like might have, I feel like there was a real emotional dilemma about whether I was going to let you read, was it the fourth book?
Yeah, the last book. Yeah. You get married, that's important. They get married and then they do get married. Yeah, but they talk about sex in that fourth book, and I think you were, you must have been 15 or 16 at the time or whatever. No, I was 13. You were s came out. Oh my gosh. They all came out in middle school.
Oh. Even like, yeah. So I remember feeling like, okay, these books have been all clean and all things that I didn't feel uncomfortable with you reading because they were just romance. Mm-hmm. I mean, to me they were kind of light, fluffy romance. Right. Yeah. They weren't, like we said before, they weren't a big ask or a big emotional read.
Mm-hmm. And so I was very frustrated when she came out with the, that other book when you were 13 and I wasn't ready for you to be reading about sex yet. And I didn't feel correction, correction breaking. Dawn came out in 2008, so I was. 11. Really? Yeah. Because we read these right as they came out. So I, I probably, by the time we read it, I was 12, but I remember being like in like early middle school.
Mm-hmm. When the books were coming out and I was reading them. Oh, wow. Because I would have like, 'cause I'd have entire weekends. Like I think I read each of them in like a weekend. Yeah. Like I would just be able to sit down and, and I felt so good 'cause there were big books and I could read them all. But like you said, it's not hefty writing.
Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. But sorry, you were saying you felt conflicted. No, I did. I felt very conflicted and I, I remember that being really because, because I knew. That you would read it whether I let you read it or not, right? Mm-hmm. But I do remember feeling betrayed by Stephanie Meyer because she was an LDS author and I thought, oh, well she'll keep these clean until, and, and then she didn't.
And I had let you read them. Do you remember what the sex scene was though? I don't. I don't remember. I, but, but you know, we talked about earlier about like purity culture and, and just repression. Right? And I was in a very repression mindset. Like, we don't need to talk about sex yet. We don't need to talk about any of these things yet.
And, um, yeah, I, I felt like it pushed me to, to let you read something that I didn't feel like you were ready to read yet. And I mean thinking now that like you were 12 years old or 11 years old, I still kind of stand by that a little bit. Well, okay, let me just say from the beginning, the sex stuff comes up in Eclipse because that's when they make the deal of like.
He doesn't want her to become a vampire. So she's, he's trying to give like human experiences to her so that she won't wanna become a vampire. And she's like, well, I can think of one human experience. I do want, oh, and it's sex. And he's like, I'm not going to do that until we're married because he's Mormon.
And, uh, so it comes up a little bit, but like, I, I do actually think that, like having, um, a conversation about like. What do you do when you want to have sex with someone and like setting boundaries around that or having a conversation around that is appropriate for 11 and 12? Because I do think that like for a lot of people, that's when you start feeling that.
And to clear your, your conscious a little bit, the sex scene in the fourth book that was so bad that when you handed it to me, you said, and I don't know if you remember this, but I remember this, you said, I just wish I could take a sharpie and black out certain parts, but I'm gonna let you read this and if you have any questions, let me know.
But the sex scene that actually happens. Is like she realizes Alice brought, bought her all this lingerie and packed it for her, for her, uh, wedding night. She goes into the bathroom. She has like a human moment, like she gets, you know, prepped and ready and whatever, and then she goes out in the ocean and he is like, it, like explicitly.
It says that like. He is like waist deep in the water, so it's not even describing anything that like you wouldn't see in a bathing suit. And she screams out to see him and I think it gets to like the point of them kissing and then we, we cut to the next morning. So there's nothing like explicit in there?
Like Not really. Oh, how interesting. There's more stuff in the first book of them, like cuddling and she's like tracing his lips and stuff like that. That like does feel intimate but isn't sexual than there is like sexual stuff in the last book. Yeah. So interesting. Or I guess like towards the end, like there's lots of innuendos of like they, you know, get this house together and that their parents have built for them and they put their baby to bed and then they get to stay up all night.
Together, and that's what vampires do all night. And like, there's innuendo, but like not more innuendo than I was hearing, like attending my cousin's weddings at the time. You know, like my Mormon cousin's wedding where they're like, yeah, they're a little late to the lunch luncheon. You know, like, yeah.
That's so funny. I don't know. Does that make you feel better? It doesn't really, because I just think it was silly all together. But it's funny 'cause I do remember like associating the sex scene with the, with the ocean. So I mean, I guess maybe I'm remember it better than I thought I did. Yeah. Uh, so, and also kind of like.
Weird and random, but Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and like, I guess there's a lot more like allusions to it than it happening because like she does try to like seduce him throughout the rest of the time. Mm-hmm. But like, he won't do it because he's so afraid to hurt her. You know? Very repress, like the re repression is still there.
Yeah. Um, but you know, like there's a lot of topics like if you look like Twilight and Mormonism, like there's lots of Mormons who have like made videos and tiktoks and things like that about like the different Mormonism themes and how it seeps into her writing. Like, you know, in the way that she dresses, there's like a part where she's described putting on a long khaki skirt and a.
Dark blue shirt, and he's like, you look utterly and decent. Like, you know, like, it's like a very, like, she's always dressed Mormon. There's like the, the premarital abstinence. Like, he's very much like, I will not have sex with you until we're married. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I'll just lay next to you and watch you sleep.
And like, there's also like a lot of pro-life stuff. Like with, especially with like Rosalie, like talking about how she's sad that she couldn't be a mom and like Esme, like adopting a family 'cause she couldn't be a mom. And, and then like when Bella has this, this baby that's like literally going to kill her, she is like, no, I must keep this baby at all costs.
And yeah, so, so there's like Christian themes, there's like, or I guess like evangelical. Christian themes throughout. Mm-hmm. But the thing to me that like explicitly is Mormon, that seeps in is the vampire lore. And I don't know, like have you read a lot of other vampire books? I haven't. I love vampire media.
Mm-hmm. And. You know, each, each different book or movie or TV show that you see about vampires, like they will go over how vampires are made. And there's a few different ones. Like sometimes it's like, like Vampire Diaries. You have to die with a vampire's blood in your system. So like you have to drink vampire blood, then die.
Oh, then you have to drink human blood in the next 24 hours. Like when you come back from the dead and then you're like a vampire, right? Like that's one example. I can't remember Ann Rice. I think hers is like if you're nearly dead. I think I did read some Anne Rice. I think I did read Diarrhea of a Vampire at some point, but yeah, it seems like that you had to, they had to stop before you were all the way dead or something like that.
They had stop Yeah. Drinking your stop feeding on you. Yeah. Hers isn't dd that much in that like a, they don't have to be dead. They can be almost dead and it will bring them back, but like you can't bring the dead back. And you also don't have to fully die to become a vampire. Um, you just have to like be bitten and not like drain the blood.
But the other vampire lore that differs is things like why they can't go into the sunlight, or like the fact that they can survive off of animal blood, which Ann Rice does like talk about. In interview with Vampire, like there's a time where he does feed on rats and things like that, but, but like the way that it will change their eye color or just some different, like vampire lure things, or they don't have to sleep inside coffins.
Like they actually don't have to sleep at all. Mm. And. A lot of like conversations that I've had in these book clubs about how weird her vampire Laura is. Um, the conclusion that I've come to that is explicitly a Mormon influence is that they're not vampires, they're celestial beings. Okay. So like, more what I think is, well, I don't know, did you ever like, have like daydreams or imaginations about what the sotal life would be like?
I think that my mind has always gone to the well for one thing, families being together forever, right? Like so. Mm-hmm. Very family. And then the other quote that always influences me is the one that says, um, um, that the same sociality will exist coupled with eternal glory or something like that. What does that mean?
Just the idea that like, heaven is our relationships. And I don't know if I always, if I always saw it that way, but, um, yeah, most of my life I have thought of it that way. Have you ever thought about like yourself in the social kingdom? Like, like being perfect and being beautiful Yes. And being young, that kind of thing?
Yes. Um, yeah. Yeah. I have some thoughts about that, but like. I just like, I just don't believe that we're ever just going to be gifted a, a perfect, you know, body or whatever like that. But I definitely thought we did. Okay. And, and a lot of my daydreaming had to do with the eternal family. Yes. Like, I definitely, like there were people that I was like, I cannot wait to see them again.
Mm-hmm. And I'm glad that they will still be, you know, related to me. But I, I thought a lot about like, what is my body gonna be like, because there's a few quotes I pulled about like resurrection in general. Okay, so the first one is from Alma Live. It said the, this mortal body is raised to an immortal body that they cannot die no more.
So like there's a lot of, like, they can't die anymore. There's no sickness, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Um, Alma 1143 talks about the resurrected body and it says the spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form. Um, and we don't really know what perfect form means there, but Joseph F.
Smith. Said, and this is from the Gospel Doctrine fifth edition, um, and it's from 1939, I think. But he said, deformity will be removed, de effects will be eliminated, and men and women shall attain to the perfection of their spirits, to the perfection that God designed in the beginning. Mm-hmm. And then the other one that I pulled was from Lorenzo Snow.
And this is from the teachings of Lorenzo Snow, um, by Clyde j Williams. And he said, there's nothing more beautiful to look upon than a resurrected man or woman. So I did have like a lot of daydreams about like, what does that mean? Is it gonna be like whatever form I'm most perfect? Like. While I'm on earth, like I'll revert back to that form.
Like in that case, like I would think as deeply as like, okay, I gotta make sure that at some point in my life I look a certain way, so that if I'm resurrected, I, I can be like, oh, at least I'll look that hot when I'm re resurrected. You know? That was a big concern to me at 13. What it's making me think of is.
I remember thinking like with my grandparents when they all passed away. Mm-hmm. Thinking like, okay, they'll be the same age as me then when we see 'em again. Right. Yeah. And like, and I don't love that. Like I want my, my cuddly grandma. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And because I mean, I don't think that that was how she wanted to be resurrected, but I do think like.
My grandma was overweight and, and she was so fun to hug and I loved her like that. Yeah. She didn't love being like that, so like wanting other people to be the way that I want them to be, I guess, or whatever. Like just that idea. Yeah, I guess that's, you know, it does raise a lot of questions about what is our most perfect form, because a lot of these quotes are talking about are body and soul being combined or combined in, in their most.
Perfect form as God sees it. So, right. What is that and how is that different than how we exist now? And I know that that can get really, um, controversial, especially as you talk about people with different abilities, like where their bodies are different. I know that like there are people that we know and love that, you know, have autistic children or who have differently abled children who would say like, I don't.
Love that people are like, oh, my child's gonna be so different in the afterlife. Yeah, that is, is really interesting because that is definitely a big narrative as far as like, you know, our bodies will be made perfect and we won't have these, these same handicaps. Like I'm blind as a bat without correction and mm-hmm.
You know, that idea that, that I'll be able to see perfectly, or you know, that my eyes will be perfect or that. It's like, okay. Which like, because another place that it comes up, I think a lot is in the queer community, the idea that mm-hmm. You know, when you're resurrected you won't be queer and you know, is that something that that queer people even want?
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's so interesting, like something as simple as. What's your grandma in her most perfect form in like the form, she would've been very happy with how she felt or how she looked. Yeah. Or like the form where you were most happy to see her and felt like she was perfect and Yeah. Yeah, it is very interesting.
Yeah, and, and, and like you said, like there's definitely things about me that I'm like, yeah, in a perfect eternal world. These things would be different, but what does it actually mean? And, and I don't know that we, and any kind of the doctrine that I see get like any clarification on that other than you're beautiful to behold and it's a perfect body.
Right? Lots and lots of speculation, but Yeah. Yeah. But definitely like when I was. More immature, admittedly Uhhuh. I did think a lot about like, yeah, but when I'm resurrected I'll be hot. I'm like, this is gonna be perfect. And I do wonder. If a young Stephanie Meyer ever thought about that, ever daydreamed about that, ever daydreamed about like, someday I will be hot with my hot husband and our beautiful children and we're all resurrected and it's perfect.
And I kind of think that's where her vampires came from because her vampires explicitly are hot, like explicitly. You come back. Beautiful. And your most perfect self. Like any deformity, any um, way that you were not confident like that's gone. Like, you know, Bella is super, super clumsy and then she comes a vampire and she's like very agile and fast and, you know.
Yeah. And she's also like, I've never looked better and. I do think that's interesting and I do think that that's why her vampires are sort of different than other vampires. I think a few other things are like that, like make me think that they're celestial beings is like the fact that they sparkle in the sunlight.
Like yeah, they can't have any harm come to them. Like vampires in this universe can die if you literally like rip them apart and burn the parts. Like there's nothing natural that can kill them. Yeah. Okay. So my question is, is mm-hmm. Do you think that, that this book influenced your fantasies of what you would be like as a celestial being?
Maybe. Actually, I hadn't thought about that. Maybe because I definitely read this book and was like, well, what would I look like as a vampire? Like what if I was. Just transformed into myself, but super hot, what would that be like? So that's entirely possible. Like I might be projecting. The other thing though that I think really influenced that is like, because to be clear, I think that there are real vampires in this book.
I think that the Voler are written at like real vampires. They are evil. They drink human blood. They're like all power hungry. They're ancient and like, okay. I think that the colon family is more like resurrected beings because their pursuit is to help others, uh, and continue their, their family for eternity and continue to build their family.
For eternity. And I, I do think that that is heavily influenced by her opinions as a Mormon and like what she thinks. Yeah. A good afterlife would be as a Mormon. Yeah. Which, you know, maybe I'm a vampire because that's like, that's like my ideal afterlife, right. Is family. I think you're a Stephanie Meyer by her because I do, I do think that her.
Main characters are, are very Mormon. Uh, the other thing that makes me think that they're celestial beings instead of just basic, eternal beings is that procreation is only a act that can happen for people who are in the celestial kingdom. You cannot continue your family if you're in the est terrestrial kingdom.
I don't have mom, have you ever heard of the tea K smoothie? Yes. And you, I mean, I suppose that you should probably explain what that is because I'm sure that most listeners, listeners haven't, but I haven't. Yeah. Yeah. So, so Mormons believe in the very end, everyone will be judged and you'll be split into three kingdoms.
The celestial kingdom, which is like the highest kingdom where you've completed all of the temple covenants, and you, like I said. Can procreate, like you'll continue to build your family with your eternal partner and you'll also be with your family that is sealed to you in the temple. The other two kingdoms are called the cholesterol and the terrestrial kingdom, and they have some divisions between them, but for the sake of this explanation, they're just lower.
Kingdoms and in this kingdom, because you are not continuing your eternal family, you are not procreated. So there's a joke that just like a Ken Barbie doll Uhhuh, you'll be smoothed out and not be able to pro procreate in your eternal body in the ES Kingdom or the ESAL kingdom. And since they both start with a tea, they're both abbreviated tk, so that's why it's called the TK smoothie.
To be clear. Mm-hmm. This is not Mormon doctrine, right? This is not, this is a speculation on, mm-hmm. What, based on Mormon doctrine, based on if you want to actually read the doctrine and understand what the doctrine is, it's in Doctrine and Covenants, section 76. Where it talks about, you know, the types of people that will be in the celestial kingdom and the types of people that will be in the, the terrestrial and tial kingdoms.
But we're not, we're not given really specific ideas about, about what all of those things will look like. And so, mm-hmm. So the idea is definitely that we will continue to create families only if we're in the celestial kingdom. And if we're in a lesser kingdom, then that doesn't happen. And so, so I mean, it's just kind of a weird colloquialism about what that might look like.
Yeah. Well, explicitly in Twilight, the vampires have sex, so I do think that that does make them celestial banks because they, they can do that. Yeah. And the other people can't. Um. There's other things like that fit what I thought Al would be like. All these vampires have lots of different degrees and they learn different instruments and they learn different languages because they just have all this time to learn.
I know that they talk about when the second coming happens, all truth will be known and we also will continue to grow and develop as individuals. Um. And be able to learn all things. And so I do feel like there's a lot of influence there that is not just like the the Christian influence with the purity culture and stuff like that, but that's like coming from an explicitly Mormon author.
Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. The other thing that I think is explicitly Mormon is the character of Carlisle. Do you remember Carlisle from the books? I don't remember Carlisle at all. He is Edward's dad, like pseudo dad, and he's kinda like the leader Oh, okay. Of like the good vampires, the, the vegetarian vampires.
And I mean, the way that he looks is very much like Joseph Smith. Oh, he's blonde, he's strong, he's young, but also he's like. The leader of this coven or of the, I guess it's not the coven of it's vampires, but he's the leader and he also has created a family of vampires that are peculiar people because they don't drink human blood, they drink animal blood, and there are explicit parts in the book where other vampires will talk about how peculiar, and they use that word, uhhuh.
His family is. And so I do think that his family are Mormons, because Mormons always talk about how they're a peculiar person and there is something to being Mormon that is like, well, I'm different than other people. I don't drink coffee. I don't do certain things. Yeah. You know, and, and there is kind of a, like within the church establishment of like.
Being in the world, but not of the world. So they're vampires, but they're not, they're not the bad vampires. Yeah. And he also does work to change others to that kind of like convert them to that idea. What's his name? Um, Jasper in the books is having a hard time adapting, but he still is working at it and still wants to not eat humans.
And there's like the character of Bree Tanner. She wrote like a shorter book on this character that comes up in Eclipse, who is one of the vampires that's made, and she surrenders at the battle and ultimately the Voler come and like kill her. But Carlisle gives her the option to not be killed, but to like join them and join their way.
There's the short second life of Bree Tanner that's all about it. So like explicitly, he is a leader. He looks like Joseph Smith is converting people and he's also always the wise one, always the right one, always the one who knows best and is is most sound mind and, and has the most connections. And I think that that also is, is from a Mormon imagination.
Interesting. Yeah. The last thing that I think. Makes me think that Stephanie Meyer highly puts it Mormon fantasies into her books. Uhhuh is the book, the host, did you ever read the Host? I didn't. Sorry, I read that when I was older. Okay. The concept of the host is that there are aliens. That interject themselves into like the brainstem of different, um, life on other planets, and they take over their minds.
Oh, so this is a perfect world. This is whole other series. Yes. This isn't, yes, it's a whole other world. And like the main character, like is the host, like she gets an alien put into her, but then she like is fighting with the alien in her and there's like this whole thing, but. The aliens are missionaries because they go take over planet to planet and they like make it a perfect planet.
There's like the law of concentration, which is like. Socialism, but make it Mormon like early Mormons practice each person giving what they can and taking what they need. Mm-hmm. Um, and like in the host, like you, you don't have to pay for anything because everything's free and everyone's kind to each other.
Nobody hurts each other. And that's what these aliens do. They take over planets and they, they teach that way to the people by taking over them. They are the bad guys objectively in that book, but it does feel very much like a mission. How interesting. I'm gonna have to look that one up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, any last thoughts on Twilight or what I said?
Well, I guess my question is what do you think like an afterlife is like? You know, I don't know. I think that the Mormon afterlife in a lot of ways is fine. You know? Like, it's fine. Like I think, I think, I don't know. Did you watch the movie Eternity? Eternity? Who's, I don't think so. Who's in it? Um, it has Elizabeth Olson in it.
It came out this year. You should watch it if you haven't watched it. It's cute. It's about a woman who like is in the afterlife and she gets the afterlife and she's had two husbands in her life and she has to pick one to spend the rest of her life with. Oh, and that afterlife is really interesting because like they do explicitly say that your physical body, that you appear as is the time that you were happiest in life.
So. There's kids around, there's old people around, but it is just when you are happiest, Uhhuh and um, and it just has like different things that you get to pick from to send your eternity and you have to pick one. Like they have a beach world, which is like, everyone's at the beach all day and like beach world.
Yeah, mountain world. And like there's different things. I actually think I have. Oh, they had little flyers at the premiere for it that were like the flyers in the movie of people being like, oh, come to our eternity. Right. Oh, wow. Um, but the whole point of that is that like humans are just humans in the afterlife.
Like you, uh, you still have all of your good traits and your bad traits, and I would like an afterlife. We have more understanding and we're not so like human in the ways that make us hurt one another. Yeah. Um. But I do think that any eternity we have, the knowledge we have now and where we still have the emotions and the feelings that we have now, there will implicitly be families forever.
Because just like this found family now, I think that the people that you are choosing to keep in your life for so long during your life are also people that you will choose to continue to keeping your life in the afterlife. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. You know, that's one of the things that I think is so interesting is that we say we know, but none of us really know.
Right. Yeah. Nobody knows for sure, like even people that have claimed to have near death experiences or have mm-hmm. You know, religious experiences or anything like that. We'll never know until we get there. But I do love the idea of. Of continued relationships of continuing, yeah. To be individual people in relationship with each other, you know?
Yeah. And I think it was interesting that you started this off bearing your testimony down one funerals, because we didn't find that. No. But um. When I left the church, that was something like the next person that died after I left the church. I had to like reframe death, like yeah, like I was a child again, you know, and accept.
A different version of death than I had always believed in because I had always been so confident that like it almost didn't matter. They're not in pain anymore, and I'll see them again. Yeah. And when I do see them, it will feel like it's been no time at all. Mm-hmm. Um, but I did have to reframe like, this might be the last time I've ever seen this person or that I ever get to see them in, in a form that makes them who they are.
And in a form where I am who I am, you know, because there are, yeah. After that people believe in, we're like, we don't care about any of this stuff. Or we don't have these emotions, like things like that. Right. And that was really hard. I, I really had a lot of grief because I had to mourn every death that had felt like a short goodbye before then.
Yeah. Um, so that was hard. But I do think that, like, with that being said, the only thing that interests me about an afterlife, Uhhuh or about. Continuing to exist after like 90 years of this life would be to see people again and continue those relationships. Yeah, I feel, I feel the same way too, because I mean, when you think about like just existing for eternity, it's a little bit terrifying, right?
Yeah. Like what would you even. But I do love the idea of continuing relationships and I think to me as I've gotten older and, and kind of pondered, okay, what are these teachings pointing to? Because I don't believe in a TK smoothie, right. And I don't believe in progress just being halted for eternity, whatever.
Mm-hmm. I mean, because that's what we believe in is damnation is being literally damned and not. Mm-hmm. Not being able to progress, and that just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Yeah. You know, I guess where, where I land on it is I believe that if we are children of God, that means that we are creators, which makes sense to me because we look around and.
But that's what human beings do, is we create, right? We mm-hmm. Create good things and bad things and all kinds of things. Mm-hmm. But that, you know, whatever afterlife comes, that that will be what we create it to be, not something that will be imposed upon us, if that makes sense. Yeah, agree. So, yeah, like those relationships that we want to continue.
Yeah, and I think we'll be in a way that's like not halted by all of the things that we have to deal with now. Yeah. Like I do hope it's a more perfect time, but even if it's not, even if it's not like some kind of perfect reality, like, like again, the movie Eternity of. They realize being on the beach for eternity wouldn't be that great because sometimes you need to mix things up, you know?
Right. I don't know. Like, and the beach is still just as crowded as like, like it's, it's so, it's such a silly movie. It's so cute. Um, but like, I, I, I would like. Even if it's not more perfect to still be able to create for myself and still be able to build a life and build relationships. And, you know, sometimes I get really panicky when I think, again, you were talking about your funeral earlier, like all of my grandparents are still alive.
Like I haven't even had, uh, a grandparent die. I've only had great grandparents die. So I get really panicky when I think about. That my grandparents will eventually die and my parents will eventually die because I'm so far away from that and I've been far away from that most of my life. Yeah. Um, but I get really panicky when I think about, okay, if my parents live another 40 years.
Right, and I see them twice a year. That means I only have 80 times to see them again. And like when I see them, I'm like, okay, you have, this is one of 80 that you have left. And that makes me really panicky. And that is something that I could do an eternity of. I could do an eternity of Thanksgivings at grandma's house and I could do so like you said, like, like I agree, like eternal life would feel daunting, but if it is.
Like, I'm only interested in it if I can feel that same level of joy that I do with my family. Yeah, I love that so much. Makes me teary actually. Um, but I think the other thing that like understanding that we don't know that for sure, like the thing that that's taught me is that. I don't wanna waste any of this either.
No. Right. And so I think that that the best thing really lies in the balance of those two, two things. And really appreciating this as the gift that it is, even if it's, if it's just for this minute or this mm-hmm. This life. And also hoping for, for lots of, lots of continuing opportunities. Yeah. I think, 'cause you said earlier about Mormon funerals, that it can kind of feel like, like even that death is not a big deal.
I mean, it still feels like a big deal. Right? It was really, that funeral was really heartbreaking because he was 75. He still should have lived a few more years. Mm-hmm. But, um, we can get to a place where we don't appreciate the life that we have because we're so confident of an eternity. Yeah. And I think that that's a danger too.
Yeah, I agree. I never wanna feel like. It's okay if I don't see my parents this time or if, you know. Yeah. Again, it, it is a balance because I, we do live in places where I don't see you guys a lot, but I never wanna feel like it's not a big deal, the the time that we do have. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. That balance is hard.
It is. It is. But that's one of my favorite Joseph Smith quotes. And I would have to look it up, but, um, that we learn truth by proving contraries, right? It's the yin and yang thing. Mm-hmm. It's, it's always both things and those things have to be balanced with each other. Anyways, this was kind of a fun conversation.
It was, it got a little deep, even though it was about something silly, but. Yes. I love that I, yeah. Any excuse to talk about Twilight. I will. But so fun. I'm gonna have to go back and read. Read the books again. I did not love the movies. I'm just gonna say That's okay. That's okay. Really the only movie that matters is the very last one.
'cause they split the fourth book into two movies and the last one has something that's not in the book but is Canon, but it's interesting. I don't know. Okay. I recommend that one. But before you watch anything else, I think you should watch eternity. 'cause now I want your opinions on that movie. Okay? Okay.
I love you so much. I love you too. I'll talk to you soon. Talk to you soon.